Faye (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
said_scarlett) wrote2008-04-25 11:25 am
said_scarlett) wrote2008-04-25 11:25 am
Entry tags:
More Seriousness: On Social Pressure In Fandom
Lost internet last night. O.o It was very bizarre.
Alright, I debated heavily about posting this, but.... I've got some things I've got to get off my chest. Mainly about fandom, our investment in it, how fandom actions have real life consequences, and a variety of other commentary that most of my Flist probably doesn't want to hear.
Yes, this relates in a way back to Boobgate/Boobwank/whatever you want to call it.
The thing that's been bothering recently is the dismissal of peer pressure and social expectations in fannish settings. The idea that 'wanting to fit it' or 'not wanting to be left out' or 'giving in to undercurrents of peer pressure' is a stupid notion, and no one out of high school should ever fall prey to any of that.
Bullshit. Fannish settings are still social settings. And in any social setting, there will be dynamics of power and pressure. And some people are above it and don't care. But plenty of people do care. I've cared. I've been there. And I'm not weak willed or damaged or stupid by any means.
It is a natural human reaction to want to be part of a group, to want group acceptance. And there are plenty of times it comes up in fannish settings. I'll use my own fannish history as examples. For me, it's mostly been in RPG settings. I can't count the number of times I've gone along with things I wasn't comfortable with because I didn't want to be the spoilsport, or I didn't want to cause a fuss, or I didn't want the nice, well-loved BNF (and her fans) to hate me. Everything from just RPing a pairing I wasn't comfortable with to joining a game I didn't particularly like. Why did I go along with things if I didn't want to?
Because I'd learned my lesson already that saying 'no' or expressing my discomfort would earn me nothing but problems, cold shoulders, trolling and wank. So when faced with those choices, yeah, I kept my mouth shut and went along with it. And then I remember I was in a game with people I thought were my friends, and who I thought would understand if I didn't want to be part of a particular plotline or whatever. And a plotline came up that I was seriously, seriously uncomfortable with due to real life triggers. And I said so, mentioning I didn't want to be a part of it, and just asking that they label any threads involving this particular plot so I could avoid. And I was attacked. I was made to feel like my issues and my comfort didn't matter in the face of this group of people wanting to have their fun. And it made me feel like crap, and I gave in, and the entire ordeal left me a mess. I was crying. I was sick. And I tried to express this but again, I was dismissed. I was told it shouldn't matter, and it was stupid that it had such an effect on me because it was 'just a game'.
If it was 'just a game' I wondered, why was it such a big deal for these people to make me feel worthless in order to play out their plot? Couldn't they have done it without me easily enough? And just marked their logs? Since it was 'just a game'.
Needless to say, I'm not 'friends' with any of those people anymore. (And I'll say right now that if you're on my Flist now and reading this, you've most likely never been involved in any of the above.)
And I'll readily admit I have been cracking under this fannish social pressure as recently as just a couple of years ago. With RP, it's only since![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
damned that I honestly feel comfortable enough to speak up if something bothers me, or if I don't want to RP a particular something. And it's not because I'm a moderator - I've been in the above situations plenty of times as a moderator - it's because for once I really don't feel much pressure. In other fannish situations? Well, it's still kind of there. Sure, in little stupid things - joining a particular comm because other people are, doing certain memes because I don't want to be the odd one out, etc - but it's still just evidence of fannish social pressure. And I know the same things have happened to friends of mine. I've seen it happen and been able to do nothing other than offer them a shoulder to cry on. Because otherwise we'd be causing trouble and stirring up wank.
So to me, the idea that there is no peer pressure or social bullying in fandom is ludicrous. Of course there is. Fannish folks are still people, and those dynamics exist wherever there are people. Fandom isn't some magical happy place where everyone respects and understands everyone else. It'd be wonderful if it were, but it's just a huge group of real people with real people brains and real people instinct and real people hang ups all coming together. Good god, I've seen fannish groups that operate like cults, with a charismatic leader and a bevy of devoted, close-knit fans who will go after anyone who dares say anything against their 'leader'.
And I like to think I've never inadvertently pressured anyone into anything, but I can't say for sure I haven't. Maybe I have. Sometimes we don't realize we're doing it. And for me there is a difference between inadvertent pressure and active pressure. They both suck, but the former is usually much easier to do away with and get straightened out.
But I think sometimes we all need to remember that everyone we interact with in fandom is a real person. They aren't a faceless computer entity, they aren't famous, they aren't more than a regular person. They don't have any particular power over us except for the power we give them. And above all, no one, be they mod or admin or webmaster or archivist or BNF or whatever, has the right to coerce and manipulate us into doing things we don't want to, or make us feel like any less of a person for our own choices within fandom.
But that doesn't change the reality that they'll try. :/
Alright, I debated heavily about posting this, but.... I've got some things I've got to get off my chest. Mainly about fandom, our investment in it, how fandom actions have real life consequences, and a variety of other commentary that most of my Flist probably doesn't want to hear.
Yes, this relates in a way back to Boobgate/Boobwank/whatever you want to call it.
The thing that's been bothering recently is the dismissal of peer pressure and social expectations in fannish settings. The idea that 'wanting to fit it' or 'not wanting to be left out' or 'giving in to undercurrents of peer pressure' is a stupid notion, and no one out of high school should ever fall prey to any of that.
Bullshit. Fannish settings are still social settings. And in any social setting, there will be dynamics of power and pressure. And some people are above it and don't care. But plenty of people do care. I've cared. I've been there. And I'm not weak willed or damaged or stupid by any means.
It is a natural human reaction to want to be part of a group, to want group acceptance. And there are plenty of times it comes up in fannish settings. I'll use my own fannish history as examples. For me, it's mostly been in RPG settings. I can't count the number of times I've gone along with things I wasn't comfortable with because I didn't want to be the spoilsport, or I didn't want to cause a fuss, or I didn't want the nice, well-loved BNF (and her fans) to hate me. Everything from just RPing a pairing I wasn't comfortable with to joining a game I didn't particularly like. Why did I go along with things if I didn't want to?
Because I'd learned my lesson already that saying 'no' or expressing my discomfort would earn me nothing but problems, cold shoulders, trolling and wank. So when faced with those choices, yeah, I kept my mouth shut and went along with it. And then I remember I was in a game with people I thought were my friends, and who I thought would understand if I didn't want to be part of a particular plotline or whatever. And a plotline came up that I was seriously, seriously uncomfortable with due to real life triggers. And I said so, mentioning I didn't want to be a part of it, and just asking that they label any threads involving this particular plot so I could avoid. And I was attacked. I was made to feel like my issues and my comfort didn't matter in the face of this group of people wanting to have their fun. And it made me feel like crap, and I gave in, and the entire ordeal left me a mess. I was crying. I was sick. And I tried to express this but again, I was dismissed. I was told it shouldn't matter, and it was stupid that it had such an effect on me because it was 'just a game'.
If it was 'just a game' I wondered, why was it such a big deal for these people to make me feel worthless in order to play out their plot? Couldn't they have done it without me easily enough? And just marked their logs? Since it was 'just a game'.
Needless to say, I'm not 'friends' with any of those people anymore. (And I'll say right now that if you're on my Flist now and reading this, you've most likely never been involved in any of the above.)
And I'll readily admit I have been cracking under this fannish social pressure as recently as just a couple of years ago. With RP, it's only since
damned that I honestly feel comfortable enough to speak up if something bothers me, or if I don't want to RP a particular something. And it's not because I'm a moderator - I've been in the above situations plenty of times as a moderator - it's because for once I really don't feel much pressure. In other fannish situations? Well, it's still kind of there. Sure, in little stupid things - joining a particular comm because other people are, doing certain memes because I don't want to be the odd one out, etc - but it's still just evidence of fannish social pressure. And I know the same things have happened to friends of mine. I've seen it happen and been able to do nothing other than offer them a shoulder to cry on. Because otherwise we'd be causing trouble and stirring up wank.So to me, the idea that there is no peer pressure or social bullying in fandom is ludicrous. Of course there is. Fannish folks are still people, and those dynamics exist wherever there are people. Fandom isn't some magical happy place where everyone respects and understands everyone else. It'd be wonderful if it were, but it's just a huge group of real people with real people brains and real people instinct and real people hang ups all coming together. Good god, I've seen fannish groups that operate like cults, with a charismatic leader and a bevy of devoted, close-knit fans who will go after anyone who dares say anything against their 'leader'.
And I like to think I've never inadvertently pressured anyone into anything, but I can't say for sure I haven't. Maybe I have. Sometimes we don't realize we're doing it. And for me there is a difference between inadvertent pressure and active pressure. They both suck, but the former is usually much easier to do away with and get straightened out.
But I think sometimes we all need to remember that everyone we interact with in fandom is a real person. They aren't a faceless computer entity, they aren't famous, they aren't more than a regular person. They don't have any particular power over us except for the power we give them. And above all, no one, be they mod or admin or webmaster or archivist or BNF or whatever, has the right to coerce and manipulate us into doing things we don't want to, or make us feel like any less of a person for our own choices within fandom.
But that doesn't change the reality that they'll try. :/
no subject
We all paid our dues, and I just hope that we learned from it and can recognize the signs of when we get into an oogy situation now. And it is hard, because of all the things that have been hashed out here in comments. But I think it's an important thing to get out there and discuss.
I think finding that place where you fit in is the most important thing. *hugs*
Don't worry, I know RLs been busy for you!
no subject
It just blew me away. Mind you, I'm anal retentive about crossover stuff myself. It has to be written well, but I honestly don't think you should judge it just because it's a crossover. I've seen some awesome stuff out there. A Gundamwing B-5 crossover, wonderpeice, and they made it fit.
Now I have this horridly sour taste for Torchwood fandom. When mind you, I've felt at home in Who-fandom and FMA fandom, both of which have their quarks and wars, but seem to be willing to welcome multifandom fans.
And well, don't get me going about Gundamwing fans... *twitch*
I guess what I'm saying is, we all have things that make us irritable because of how we've been treated or how we see other folks treated, so we react. I damn well know I will NOT post my Torchwood Crossover on the Torchwood lists because of it and I have this negative impression about it, knowing that they hogpiled someone who didn't fit their idea of creativity. Which is likely why I hated GW fandom....
Anyhow, I'm glad you wrote about it. It puts it all in perspective.
*Hugs* thanks for understanding. Hopefully I'll get more free time once things settle down again. I've been dreadful to my flist of late.