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said_scarlett) wrote2008-04-25 11:25 am
said_scarlett) wrote2008-04-25 11:25 am
Entry tags:
More Seriousness: On Social Pressure In Fandom
Lost internet last night. O.o It was very bizarre.
Alright, I debated heavily about posting this, but.... I've got some things I've got to get off my chest. Mainly about fandom, our investment in it, how fandom actions have real life consequences, and a variety of other commentary that most of my Flist probably doesn't want to hear.
Yes, this relates in a way back to Boobgate/Boobwank/whatever you want to call it.
The thing that's been bothering recently is the dismissal of peer pressure and social expectations in fannish settings. The idea that 'wanting to fit it' or 'not wanting to be left out' or 'giving in to undercurrents of peer pressure' is a stupid notion, and no one out of high school should ever fall prey to any of that.
Bullshit. Fannish settings are still social settings. And in any social setting, there will be dynamics of power and pressure. And some people are above it and don't care. But plenty of people do care. I've cared. I've been there. And I'm not weak willed or damaged or stupid by any means.
It is a natural human reaction to want to be part of a group, to want group acceptance. And there are plenty of times it comes up in fannish settings. I'll use my own fannish history as examples. For me, it's mostly been in RPG settings. I can't count the number of times I've gone along with things I wasn't comfortable with because I didn't want to be the spoilsport, or I didn't want to cause a fuss, or I didn't want the nice, well-loved BNF (and her fans) to hate me. Everything from just RPing a pairing I wasn't comfortable with to joining a game I didn't particularly like. Why did I go along with things if I didn't want to?
Because I'd learned my lesson already that saying 'no' or expressing my discomfort would earn me nothing but problems, cold shoulders, trolling and wank. So when faced with those choices, yeah, I kept my mouth shut and went along with it. And then I remember I was in a game with people I thought were my friends, and who I thought would understand if I didn't want to be part of a particular plotline or whatever. And a plotline came up that I was seriously, seriously uncomfortable with due to real life triggers. And I said so, mentioning I didn't want to be a part of it, and just asking that they label any threads involving this particular plot so I could avoid. And I was attacked. I was made to feel like my issues and my comfort didn't matter in the face of this group of people wanting to have their fun. And it made me feel like crap, and I gave in, and the entire ordeal left me a mess. I was crying. I was sick. And I tried to express this but again, I was dismissed. I was told it shouldn't matter, and it was stupid that it had such an effect on me because it was 'just a game'.
If it was 'just a game' I wondered, why was it such a big deal for these people to make me feel worthless in order to play out their plot? Couldn't they have done it without me easily enough? And just marked their logs? Since it was 'just a game'.
Needless to say, I'm not 'friends' with any of those people anymore. (And I'll say right now that if you're on my Flist now and reading this, you've most likely never been involved in any of the above.)
And I'll readily admit I have been cracking under this fannish social pressure as recently as just a couple of years ago. With RP, it's only since![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
damned that I honestly feel comfortable enough to speak up if something bothers me, or if I don't want to RP a particular something. And it's not because I'm a moderator - I've been in the above situations plenty of times as a moderator - it's because for once I really don't feel much pressure. In other fannish situations? Well, it's still kind of there. Sure, in little stupid things - joining a particular comm because other people are, doing certain memes because I don't want to be the odd one out, etc - but it's still just evidence of fannish social pressure. And I know the same things have happened to friends of mine. I've seen it happen and been able to do nothing other than offer them a shoulder to cry on. Because otherwise we'd be causing trouble and stirring up wank.
So to me, the idea that there is no peer pressure or social bullying in fandom is ludicrous. Of course there is. Fannish folks are still people, and those dynamics exist wherever there are people. Fandom isn't some magical happy place where everyone respects and understands everyone else. It'd be wonderful if it were, but it's just a huge group of real people with real people brains and real people instinct and real people hang ups all coming together. Good god, I've seen fannish groups that operate like cults, with a charismatic leader and a bevy of devoted, close-knit fans who will go after anyone who dares say anything against their 'leader'.
And I like to think I've never inadvertently pressured anyone into anything, but I can't say for sure I haven't. Maybe I have. Sometimes we don't realize we're doing it. And for me there is a difference between inadvertent pressure and active pressure. They both suck, but the former is usually much easier to do away with and get straightened out.
But I think sometimes we all need to remember that everyone we interact with in fandom is a real person. They aren't a faceless computer entity, they aren't famous, they aren't more than a regular person. They don't have any particular power over us except for the power we give them. And above all, no one, be they mod or admin or webmaster or archivist or BNF or whatever, has the right to coerce and manipulate us into doing things we don't want to, or make us feel like any less of a person for our own choices within fandom.
But that doesn't change the reality that they'll try. :/
Alright, I debated heavily about posting this, but.... I've got some things I've got to get off my chest. Mainly about fandom, our investment in it, how fandom actions have real life consequences, and a variety of other commentary that most of my Flist probably doesn't want to hear.
Yes, this relates in a way back to Boobgate/Boobwank/whatever you want to call it.
The thing that's been bothering recently is the dismissal of peer pressure and social expectations in fannish settings. The idea that 'wanting to fit it' or 'not wanting to be left out' or 'giving in to undercurrents of peer pressure' is a stupid notion, and no one out of high school should ever fall prey to any of that.
Bullshit. Fannish settings are still social settings. And in any social setting, there will be dynamics of power and pressure. And some people are above it and don't care. But plenty of people do care. I've cared. I've been there. And I'm not weak willed or damaged or stupid by any means.
It is a natural human reaction to want to be part of a group, to want group acceptance. And there are plenty of times it comes up in fannish settings. I'll use my own fannish history as examples. For me, it's mostly been in RPG settings. I can't count the number of times I've gone along with things I wasn't comfortable with because I didn't want to be the spoilsport, or I didn't want to cause a fuss, or I didn't want the nice, well-loved BNF (and her fans) to hate me. Everything from just RPing a pairing I wasn't comfortable with to joining a game I didn't particularly like. Why did I go along with things if I didn't want to?
Because I'd learned my lesson already that saying 'no' or expressing my discomfort would earn me nothing but problems, cold shoulders, trolling and wank. So when faced with those choices, yeah, I kept my mouth shut and went along with it. And then I remember I was in a game with people I thought were my friends, and who I thought would understand if I didn't want to be part of a particular plotline or whatever. And a plotline came up that I was seriously, seriously uncomfortable with due to real life triggers. And I said so, mentioning I didn't want to be a part of it, and just asking that they label any threads involving this particular plot so I could avoid. And I was attacked. I was made to feel like my issues and my comfort didn't matter in the face of this group of people wanting to have their fun. And it made me feel like crap, and I gave in, and the entire ordeal left me a mess. I was crying. I was sick. And I tried to express this but again, I was dismissed. I was told it shouldn't matter, and it was stupid that it had such an effect on me because it was 'just a game'.
If it was 'just a game' I wondered, why was it such a big deal for these people to make me feel worthless in order to play out their plot? Couldn't they have done it without me easily enough? And just marked their logs? Since it was 'just a game'.
Needless to say, I'm not 'friends' with any of those people anymore. (And I'll say right now that if you're on my Flist now and reading this, you've most likely never been involved in any of the above.)
And I'll readily admit I have been cracking under this fannish social pressure as recently as just a couple of years ago. With RP, it's only since
damned that I honestly feel comfortable enough to speak up if something bothers me, or if I don't want to RP a particular something. And it's not because I'm a moderator - I've been in the above situations plenty of times as a moderator - it's because for once I really don't feel much pressure. In other fannish situations? Well, it's still kind of there. Sure, in little stupid things - joining a particular comm because other people are, doing certain memes because I don't want to be the odd one out, etc - but it's still just evidence of fannish social pressure. And I know the same things have happened to friends of mine. I've seen it happen and been able to do nothing other than offer them a shoulder to cry on. Because otherwise we'd be causing trouble and stirring up wank.So to me, the idea that there is no peer pressure or social bullying in fandom is ludicrous. Of course there is. Fannish folks are still people, and those dynamics exist wherever there are people. Fandom isn't some magical happy place where everyone respects and understands everyone else. It'd be wonderful if it were, but it's just a huge group of real people with real people brains and real people instinct and real people hang ups all coming together. Good god, I've seen fannish groups that operate like cults, with a charismatic leader and a bevy of devoted, close-knit fans who will go after anyone who dares say anything against their 'leader'.
And I like to think I've never inadvertently pressured anyone into anything, but I can't say for sure I haven't. Maybe I have. Sometimes we don't realize we're doing it. And for me there is a difference between inadvertent pressure and active pressure. They both suck, but the former is usually much easier to do away with and get straightened out.
But I think sometimes we all need to remember that everyone we interact with in fandom is a real person. They aren't a faceless computer entity, they aren't famous, they aren't more than a regular person. They don't have any particular power over us except for the power we give them. And above all, no one, be they mod or admin or webmaster or archivist or BNF or whatever, has the right to coerce and manipulate us into doing things we don't want to, or make us feel like any less of a person for our own choices within fandom.
But that doesn't change the reality that they'll try. :/
no subject
Yeah, I totally agree with that. It's no different than meeting up with people in person, so it does boggle the mind how someone could see it any differently. It also boggles my mind how someone can see online friends as not 'real' friends. You have the same sort of connections you do with people in person, the same sort of demographics that come into play in real life, so to see someone say that online friends are not real friends makes not one damn bit of sense.
And yeah, I have been privy to actual con drama that had nothing to do with me but happened all around to those I was with (some even causing it). And no, giving into social pressures is not something that means you are not a strong person, it just means you are human plain and simple. And sadly you find that peer pressure is something that affects everyone (most people just fall victim to groupists: falling into a group mentality and going with what the majority wants) and never really meaning what they say/do as, and sometimes it makes them cater to other's whims even if they are not comfortable with it in the least (and it really isn't that great of a thing when people do not take into account for others feelings or how they might react to a situation differently).
*nods on the last part* It happens, and this is why people have to take into account that sometimes people's actions are not worth getting frustrated over when things can simply be nothing more than a misunderstanding, or someone just not thinking things through before saying/doing something. Yes, some things can just not be forgiven no matter what someone says or does, but as a whole no one ever really means things 100% and second chances are well worth giving (unless it keeps happening over and over again. It is at that point when second chances do and can run out).