said_scarlett: (exquisite corpse envy)
Faye ([personal profile] said_scarlett) wrote2006-08-25 04:49 pm
Entry tags:

On Characterization Woes....

I survived the storms! Huzzah!

I really do have some bizarre fascination with Hohenheim as a professor. I don't know why or where it came from, but I do.

Moving on:



If you don't care at all about Envy, or if Envy!het squicks you, go back now.

The more I try and get a firm grasp on Envy's first person voice, the more I feel like I have no clue what the fuck I'm doing when I write him. The last time I wrote anything from his POV was, I believe, Frater Certamen. It was either that or Every Romance Ever Written. Both of them played heavily on his bratty, egotistical, spoiled nature. I took that part of him that remains a pissy teenager and trained the spotlight on that. Because the situations - both involving him thrust into close quarters with teenage girls - brought that aspect out in him.

In 'Frater Certamen', Winry brings out the part of him that covets. He strikes up a connection with Winry because Winry is Ed's, and Envy wants what Ed has. In his mind, Ed has taken everything that should be his, so it's only right and fair that Envy take something of Ed's. In this case, Winry. Who, at fourteen in the fic, is rather childish and immature herself. The double influence of want and immaturity combine to really bring about a petty, sarcastic, almost needy side of Envy. And in a way, a very human side of him. He's very much trapped in the past, as we see when he visits the ruins of the Elric family home. He's eaten up with this sense of injustice and unfairness that's very, very immature and fitting a teenager. And further proof of his immaturity is illustrated in his actions towards Winry. He wants her, he intends to have her. He's seeking instant gratification, some sense of mollification for the wrongs he believes have been done to him. And Winry's constant talk of Ed, the unspoken comparisons she makes, only serves to escalate both the want - the want to take what's Ed's - and the sense of injustice. He is constantly reminded of who he sees as his rival. He lashes out, he can't control his emotions, he's erratic and easily upset and controlled by his anger.

In 'Every Romance Ever Written', he's still very much a teenager but in a much more confident sense. Ed hasn't been born yet, there's no focused hate towards any rival. There's only the general hate towards his father, nurtured and cultured over the years. In this one he's more brash, egotistical, boastful. Like a teenage boy who's trying so hard to be cool, he's sarcastic with Izumi and brushes her off and bickers with her in rather classic faux-flirtation. There's no sense of want here, no sense of covetousness, because Izumi doesn't belong to anyone except in a vague sense Dante. And while Envy shows some vague interest in the later part of the story of having some claim over a body his mother wants, it's almost an afterthought. Though he scoffs at Izumi and scorns her and moans that she's annoying and bothers him, he also seems as though he's trying to impress her. He moans just a bit too loudly, he's the one who first makes comments about how there's sexual tension between them, and they end up with a relatively stable and yet very, very teenage relationship.

So what have I concluded? I need to develop the bits of Envy that are centuries old and capable of brilliant acts of deception and manipulation. I need to return to the Envy I wrote when I was writing Envy/Sloth, and form out of those two distinct sides of his personality an Envy that is both a bratty, spoiled teenager and a centuries old psychopathic mastermind. I can write the two sides of him great when either of them is a main focus, but I can't seem to combine them. Not when writing from his POV anyway.

And if you actually read all of that, you deserve a cookie.

[identity profile] burningvigor.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 12:23 am (UTC)(link)
I have come here for cookie collection!

But yeah, I can see what you mean. Envy's a weird one. It always bothered me that he acted like such a child when he's so ancient--that's one of the reasons I don't like him much as a character. I prefer the manipulative side better, but it isn't in character to focus heavily on one. Unfortunately, that's what most writers of Envy-fic do--they take one of the aspects of his personality to the extreme. It's hard not to do, though, but at least you can acknowledge the problem you're having. Since you know what you need to fix, actually doing it should be a little easier.

Good luck with that, though. I think if you succeed it'll probably be in my best interest...? ♥

[identity profile] theladyfeylene.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 12:27 am (UTC)(link)
Whoot! You get a cookie!

Envy is insanely weird. I've always chalked it up to him dying at eighteen, and therefor never developing mentally beyond that. His brain chemistry and formatting stopped at eighteen, so while he's got centuries of knowledge and experience, he still interprets it and reacts to it like a teenager. And it is difficult to believably blend those two major sides of his personality into one - as they don't exactly normally blend together. He's a brilliant, manipulative, deceptive, whiny brat. Honestly, this whole talking it out thing is helping. I've just got to strike a balance between the two and figure out how to stay on that line.

Thank you! And yes, yes it will be. :D

[identity profile] burningvigor.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 12:39 am (UTC)(link)
Yay!

Oh, I definitely think that writing out the issues you have help figure them out. The more you write, the more you think and figure things out. And the development thing makes a certain amount of sense, I guess. But yeah, I have faith in you. :D

[identity profile] theladyfeylene.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 12:42 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah. And I've just been hammering these around in my head, and getting nowhere at all. I'm going to be doing a couple of little writing exersizes, I think, to flush stuff out even more. The development thing is the only thing that's ever made sense in my head. Otherwise I just can't see justification for him acting so emotionally and being so driven by things that really shouldn't matter to a sentient being that's centuries old. Aw, thank you! We'll see how I do!

I figure if I can write Hohenheim in the first person, I should be able to manage Envy.

[identity profile] anat-astarte.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 12:25 am (UTC)(link)
If anyone can do it, you can!! I just know you'll find a way to bring out all Envy's elements in another great fic! XD

[identity profile] theladyfeylene.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 12:28 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! It's funny how I always felt I had a firm grasp on him, and then when attempting to write him from a first person POV I flailed and floundered and went '...wtf do I do!?!?'.

[identity profile] 13thleprechaun.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 01:02 am (UTC)(link)
XD Envy isn't the easiest one to write because he's, as you said, brilliant but immature.

And the fact that there's not a lot to go on him in the anime anyway doesn't help much. D< Also adds to why I try to avoid writing anime!Envy.

[identity profile] theladyfeylene.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 01:05 am (UTC)(link)
He's such a study in contradictions. His rapid mood swings are also difficult to write believably. Since he can go from cheerful, relaxed and content to screaming and raging and in a murderous bloodlust with nothing in between.

Yeah, there's lots of fill in the blanks in his history. With the characters I'm most comfortable writing - Ed is the number one - everything's there. You don't need to patch together history or guess at motivations or what shaped the character. With Ed, we know exactly where he's coming from and how he reacts and why he reacts the way he does. With Envy, not so much. It's lots of extrapolation and guesswork.

[identity profile] momoiro-usagi.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 03:11 am (UTC)(link)
I always enjoy writing Envy because there are so many different angles to explore! Wrath is often the same way, but it's more of the good/evil switch than the old/young switch that makes him interesting! But with Envy, he's either being a total brat, or completely on top of things. There's also a bit of a vulnerable side that only comes out with DantexEnvy and LustxEnvy, which is also really interesting to me! :3

I really like the way you worked through his character in your EnvyxWinry story, because it just worked so well for him, bringing out his jealous side and all! ;) But I can also see why you want to bring in the other side, as well. I remember I wrote a EnvyxAl story a long time ago where I tried it, and it was really, really tricky. But I'm sure you'll do fine! ^_^

[identity profile] greedyslayer.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 03:59 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, cookie! :D Yeah, I was about to say, "but you wrote him as ancient mastermind with Sloth" but then you mentioned it and things were cool. XP Um, combining the two...well, I can see the division in that he deals with these different women separately...that is to say, with human women like Winry and Izumi, Envy could very well consider them extremely young in spite of anything, and perhaps would act young around them; Sloth is young too, but she's a Homunculus, and perhaps in Envy's mind, destined to be as old as him, thus he acts old with her. (There could also be the intriguing case of Homunculus ages--perhaps the Gate just makes them naturally older?) Also, in "priority", Sloth far outstrips Winry and Izumi, especially Winry, since although Envy hates Ed, I think he'll always hate Hoenheim more, and Sloth is the failed resurrection of Hoenheim's other lover....

(I use the terms "old," and "young" loosely above. ^^;)

So basically, I can see that Envy would adjust personality quirks based on who he's with, and since he's been in close quarters with these individuals separately, there comes personality division. (Envy must have highly efficient, freaky way of reading people given all the masquerading espionage he must've done.)

Please excuse my babble. ^^;

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_acerbitas_/ 2006-08-29 06:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd love to read your take on a part of Envy's personality. It seems you've given this a whole lot of thought. :) I'm excited, and I liked what you've come up with.