On Transfiguration....

[said_scarlett]

I watched an FMA marathon last night.

And I realize that this is only going to make sense to those on my Flist who are both HP fans and FMA fans without a full explanation.

I've started to think of Transfiguration as having the same basic rules of Alchemy. Obviously with some differences, since it's two different things. But the whole principle of equal trade makes sense.

But the idea that you can't make something more than what you've already started out with makes sense to me. I don't mean the exact weight and size, obviously, because matter can be stretched and thinned.

I have no idea if I am explaining this correctly. Basically what you get is what you get. You can manipulate the matter, you can stretch it and thin out the molecules, you can manipulate the molecules into something different, but you can't produce more molecules out of nothing.

The more experienced someone becomes at transfiguration, the better they can manipulate the molecules. It's actually an extremely subtle and difficult subject, I think. Especially when it comes to transfiguring living matter. The more power a witch or wizard has, the more they're able to get around those rules.

A first year could just take a molecule and turn it into something else. A seventh year could get around the matter for matter rule by splitting a molecule, and transfiguring the two split bits into wholes, and so on and so forth.

I've just always believed that even magic has to obey the basic laws of nature. Especially the way that JKR presents her magic.

Comments

WOW

[nightraven-0417.livejournal.com]

That totally makes sense I never thought of that maybe U could somehow incorperate into a fic

Re: WOW

[theladyfeylene.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I think it's definitely something I'm going to be keeping in the back of my mind, if it ever comes up in anything I write. It was just something I thought of last night.

Re: WOW

[nightraven-0417.livejournal.com]

btw, I love your fanfiction

[suyari.livejournal.com]

I agree whole heartedly. Though I'm not sure what FMA is, I think you're right. Because if magic didn't obey at least most laws of nature, it would disrupt the balance and cause problems that would snowball into catastrophies.

Even Apparation, I think is a good example of this. The fact that it causes a sound, is proof that in the absence of the person, a small suction field would open for a moment, drawing as much air into the open space as possible. Because, there can't be nothing there. And when a wizard appears, the air rushes out, sort of repelled from the space, so their body can occupy the spot.

[theladyfeylene.livejournal.com]

Full Metal Alchemist, amazing anime series, I definitely recommend checking it out.

Exactly! JK has said that magic obeys certain rules and principles. It would have to! Like you said, catastrophes without it. Everything has limits and boundaries, even magic. And your example is great, I didn't even think of that. It's the little details that I love, and that's one of them. Magic is not all powerful. Magic can't just do anything that the wizard/witch wants. There's nothing I love more than seeing realistic examples of magic in fics.

[suyari.livejournal.com]

Oh! I know that one! Heh...*slaps forehead* Duh.

[mjstone.livejournal.com]

A thought which is drilled into the heads of engineers, especially electrical engineers, is Matter can neither be created or destroyed. This is told to Electrical Engineers (and us poor Computer Engineers) because it holds true with energy as well - you cannot simply create energy, or electricity, in a system. Instead, energy must be molded into a form where it can be used.

A good explanation can be found in a moving car. When a car is going forward, it's using Kinetic energy to hurtle forward. In order to stop the car, this energy has to be converted. Thus, the brakes of your car get hot because this is energy converting to heat to get rid of the energy. Therefore Kinetic Energy has been converted to heat in order to stop the car.

In Chemistry, it is seen that matter can be changed through two ways - one is a physical change where the molecules are not changed and the second is a chemical change where the molecules are changed. An example of a physical change can been seen when the Elric Brothers fix something that was broken - ie, the clock in the first episode. The molecules aren't changed, only the physical appearance. An example of a chemical change would be whenever Mustange burns things - by burning you are changing the chemical make up of an object. It is changed on the molecular level.

Thus, I believe that not only are transfiguration and alchemy parallel ideas, they also mimic the ideas of classical science.

[arwencordelia.livejournal.com]

Yay for the first law of thermodynamics (drilled into my head as well :-)

And this would be a perfect way of explaining magic like transfiguration. Wizards are probably aware of more types of energy than us muggles (types other than, say, mechanical vs. kinetic vs. chemical energy). But they also have ways of manipulating this energy that we dont. They can move around and re-arrange molecules using only a wand and an incantation, whereas I would need to add extra energy to change one from of matter into another - especially to change less ordered molecules to a more ordered form.

Hi, theladyfeylene, btw. I found your (very thought-provoking) discussion through daily_snitch

[theladyfeylene.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I don't know all that much about the science behind energy and matter, but I know enough that this was just something that made sense to me. I know magic is magic, but I've always felt there needs to be some order and natural boundary to it. And where so much of what JK writes is steeped in history/language/other real world things, why wouldn't the laws of her magic follow in suit?

[mjstone.livejournal.com]

I agree whole heartedly, I just got the idea in my head about science and went with it.

I'm glad that people liked it - I relized after I posted it I sounded like a big dork.

[mjstone.livejournal.com]

Playing more on my imagination than science, Perhaps Magic is a different energy. Wizards are able to tap into an energy which is present in the universe but only they can manipulate it. (Though the only thing I can think of now is the Force and suddenly I've got pictures of Draco Malfo with a Light Saber.)

And Alchemy was thought to be a science, so it does make sense that it follows the rules of Science.

[arwencordelia.livejournal.com]

suddenly I've got pictures of Draco Malfoy with a Light Saber

Now that's the kind of thought that makes me wish I'd been an artist instead of a scientist! Too bad I can barely hold a pencil the right way up :-)

It's always fun running across a fellow dork (I mean that in a good way!) in the HP fandom.

[no-remorse.livejournal.com]

This reminds me of LeGuin's take on magic in her Earthsea stories. A powerful wizard can create everything out of nothing, but it has no value. So when a very hungry Ged contemplates conjuring up food out of nothing, he doesn't, because the food wouldn't appease his hunger one tiny bit. The food would be more real than an illusion, but it wouldn't be food.

Magic couldn't "create" in LeGuin's universe. I wonder about Rowling's magic sometimes. If you transfigure a chair into a pig, is the animal "real", alive? It seems so preposterous that it should be that easy to create life in Harry Potter. Creating life out of inanimate matter seems to very god-like, you know. On the other hand if the transfigured chair is not really a true alive pig then transfiguration might be closer to LeGuin's idea of it - that you cannot create matter.

I guess I am not making too much sense here.